Podcast: The Indie Edge with Frances Webster, CEO, Walrus

Independent agencies are having a moment, but standing out requires more than scale. In this 4As.4sight. conversation Frances Webster shares how small, high-performing teams can deliver outsized impact, why deep client partnership matters more than ever and how independents can navigate growth, competition and AI without losing their edge.

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Transcript

Intro (00:00)

Welcome to the Look Ahead podcast series, 4As4Sight, where we bring together leaders to explore where agencies go next, by design, not default. In this conversation, Mollie Rosen of the 4As sits down with Frances Webster, founder and CEO of Walrus, to discuss the rising influence of independent agencies and what it takes to build a future-ready, high-impact team in today’s market.

Mollie Rosen (00:32)

All right, so as I mentioned in my note, we’re really exploring how agencies and marketers are going to be evolving next year. We’re kind of framing that idea within two potential futures. One where agencies really become more technology-driven solutions providers, and another where they’re kind of reasserting their role as more strategic and creative advisors.

And so, you know, one of the things that I think about you guys, you’ve really built your reputation so much on brand transformation and deep client partnerships and creativity versus necessarily volume and platforms. And as we’re seeing the world being reshaped by technology, client and sourcing AI, how are you thinking about what the role of the agency is in the future?

Frances Webster (01:09)

Well, Walrus has been – we celebrate our 20th year this year in 2025. Thank you. And we have been an independent creative agency since day one. And I think that this is a very good moment for independent agencies.

Mollie Rosen (01:12)

Congratulations.

Frances Webster (01:13)

Thank you. And we have been an independent creative agency since day one. And I think that this is a very good moment for independent agencies.

Mollie Rosen (01:20)

It’s so interesting to see clients shifting their perspective, who’s in the mix now. It’s really kind of everyone and anyone, if they have the right team, can really be a part of a client portfolio, no matter what.

Frances Webster (01:36)

Absolutely. That said, there are – what there’s 60 new independent agencies launched this year. So that’s what keeps me up at night a little bit. Right. So you’ve got to make sure that you are top, just like a brand, you’ve got to be top of mind with prospective clients and continuing to provide real value to your existing clients.

Mollie Rosen (01:54)

Yep, 100%. So as some agencies, you know, do potentially start to act more like platforms or enterprise partners with AI and other parts of technology influencing where we’re going, what do you feel clients need the most from you?

Frances Webster (02:09)

Strategic thinking. Clients, whether it’s, you know, 10 years ago [or] today, clients need creative that drives them to short and long-term growth no matter what, and they need strong strategic thinking. And I think that’s gonna be more important than ever. I was having breakfast with an industry veteran that runs a very large trade organization, and he was saying– he talks to clients, marketers all the time– and he’s saying that they’re not happy right now because they’re not seeing any strategic guidance from their client partners, from their agency partners.

So that’s what agencies like Walrus bring to the table. I mean, we really lock in with our clients. We act as real business partners. I think clients want to know like, “yes, this agency knows as much about my business as I do. I trust them. And that leads to insights that unlock the best work possible”, right? So yeah, if you’re not incorporating AI and all that stuff into your business, what are you doing? But again, at the end of the day, it’s about getting really smart people in a room and coming up with the best work possible.

Mollie Rosen (03:08)

So along those lines then, as you focus more on being kind of the strategic partner and delivering creative that drives business growth, as we see AI coming in and automating a lot of the production side, automating a lot of the execution, how does that impact your business or does it really?

Frances Webster (03:28)

It definitely impacts our business, but makes us work faster. Right? I mean, we’ve incorporated AI throughout Walrus’s organization. Right? So from upfront, all RFIs, contracts, any, I mean, what used to take us a week to get up to speed. Now we can get up to speed in five minutes. And then every creative has Midjourney and Nano Banana and all, I mean, we’re using all of it to the point where actually clients look at our work, look at comps and are like, wow, let’s run that.

So that’s pretty interesting, right? So those are the conversations we’re having over three different clients right now. “Okay, we can run this, but who’s liable, right?” So that’s a conversation that’s like, you get legal involved, you get the 4As involved, all that good stuff. And where I think we all need to guide one another on the best way to move forward on that to ensure that we’re all protected too, right?

Mollie Rosen (04:21)

So then as all this is happening, how are you guys thinking about reinventing your business model, whether it’s IP or talent… compensation, how is that happening for you as you think about what you’re going to need to be successful in 2026 and beyond?

Frances Webster (04:36)

Walrus was founded 20 years ago as a creative advertising agency, we’re always tinkering with the model to provide the most value to our clients and also to drive profitability for the agency. So we built out media, we’ve built out design. Most recently, we’re really thinking… about employing AI in all of our production and creatives to like one to make us move faster, make it look better, all that good stuff. And from an IP and compensation standpoint– and I’ve talked about this a couple of times– is we’re really experimenting with a lot of different compensation structures, specifically around usage and licensing of our work. Because what we’re trying to do is bring the value back to creative, right? Because it really, instead of being, all about FTEs and time and materials, it’s like, actually, No…you’re gonna pay us upfront for this work, but if it continues to provide value, you’ll continue to pay us. [If it] provides flexibility for the client on the upfront, right, on cashflow and all that good stuff, because we come in a little bit lower, but on the backend, we get rewarded if our work continues to provide value. And I really am pushing the whole industry to move in that direction because, you know, again, “just do it”, right? “Think different”. Those platforms have driven significant shareholder value, right? And are those agencies continue to get paid for that? No, right? So that’s ultimately like where we’re trying to go. And yeah, I mean, we’re having some success, which is great, but it’s also a tricky conversation to have with Pyramid.

Mollie Rosen (06:09)

Sure, bet it’s a very different conversation that they’re not used to having when talking to their marketing providers. So I can imagine.

Frances Webster (06:15)

And again, I think clients appreciate, because they’re– and I hate calling them clients– marketers, right? They are open to working with in different ways, that this is a good time to say, okay, great, let’s work together. You can have this set of assets. But if you’re gonna go run this globally or from different markets and all that kind of stuff, the agency should continue to get rewarded.

Mollie Rosen (06:48)

Yeah. No, that’s great. So if we’ve been kind of positing that there’s these two futures, one where agencies really double down on being strategic partners and more focused on kind of the thinking and creative side of it, and another side, creativity is showing up more as kind of a systems provider, maybe more of a SaaS model from a business model standpoint. Do you feel, both of those viable? I obviously feel like you guys are kind of strong in the strategic partnership side. What does it look like for the industry if there’s others that are playing more in this really technical side and kind of turning more into almost like a systems provider?

Frances Webster (07:25)

I mean, more power to them. Look at Publicis. That’s how you say that name at that whole company. I mean, they made some really smart tech data that’s 10 years ago and now look where they are, right? They’re on top, and they’ve created a recurring revenue model that is totally impressive. But that’s not the game that Walrus is playing. I think there’s– here’s the thing we said at the top of conversation– there’s so much opportunity out there and money is moving around right now.

And yes, you know, the Googles came in and took a lot of it. Now the Walmart connects and the retail media networks, right? They’re money, but that’s great, right? Because there’s like always new ways to connect with our consumers. And that’s fantastic providing value and also making a lot of money. But again, I think that at the end of the day, like media has changed so much since you have, I’ve gotten into this industry, the rules of advertising have not, which is like, let’s make a very very highly memorable, standout, scalable idea, advertise that to the appropriate mass audience, pull that through the funnel, build a whole world and use performance to capture intent, full stop, right? That’s what we’re doing. So-

Mollie Rosen (08:34)

Still doing.

Frances Webster (08:35)

Yeah, still doing. So we’re not gonna be a tech company, right? I mean I’d love to find a recurring revenue model, which is what the usage thing is. If you’ve got ideas, let me know.

Mollie Rosen (08:43)

Yeah, I will.

Frances Webster (08:45)

But at the end of the day, clients are willing to pay a premium for really good work, right, that drives growth. And creative that drives growth. And that’s what we’re– that’s why we exist.

Mollie Rosen (08:54)

I’m curious if you were to build Walrus in 2026, knowing what you know now, is there anything that you would intentionally not build into the business?

Frances Webster (09:04)

Intentionally not build? I don’t know. Well, what I would intentionally build if I were right now starting and I had a good pocketbook that I could do what I want. I would have it powered by media with creative on top, right? Like if I could go out and acquire a media agency right now with just really sharp data and all that good stuff, analytics, I mean that– we would be unstoppable.

Mollie Rosen (09:31)

That’s great.

Frances Webster (09:32)

That’s what I would build right now.

Mollie Rosen (09:32)

I understand my mission.

Frances Webster (09:35)

What would I not build? What would I not build? I don’t know… I mean, what I would build, I look out, like, if you’ve been paying attention to all the movie marketing that’s going on right now, A24, Marty Supreme…anyways, really it’s pretty amazing how they launched that. They launched that with like a fake Zoom call, with all the marketing people.

Mollie Rosen (09:57)

Or they’re on, everybody’s in their cube.

Frances Webster (09:58)

Yeah. And he’s like, I want to be on the Wheaties box. I want to do that. And you watch how that thing has rolled out. And it is not, I mean, I love making a 30 second spot, but it’s not based on a 30 second spot. It’s so creative about how they roll that out. And also like the Chanel live fashion show down in the subway last week. That’s what– I mean, when you think about who you’d want to hire, right? It’s like, yeah, we need a social influencer strategist. We need that. Like media people who understand that world. Like there’s…It’s just, it’s kind of operating on kind of a different level, which is kind of fun to watch.

Mollie Rosen (10:33)

Well, on the topic of talent then, how are you seeing automation kind of change the types of people agencies need to be hiring or that you guys need to be hiring or bringing into the organization?

Frances Webster (10:46)

Well, our whole team is getting up to speed on all of the automation, right? In real time. I mean, it’s just like when social media hit and they’re like, okay, who’s your social media team? It’s like our creatives and our account people, right? We were their social and digital AOR for five years, right? And we ran that with our team. But now I feel like I can bring it back to the top of our conversation.

I think strategy and account management are gonna be so important because this really is about relationships, right? And about really stepping in with your client, really getting to understand their business as well, or almost as well as they do, so that they trust you, right? They have really stressful jobs. It really, is really tough being a CMO or in a marketing department. And our job is one, to make them look good, but also for it to help them sell in the work that is ultimately gonna drive their business. So if you have really good account people that are high level business strategists and are also fun to hang out with, right? Like this is advertising, let’s have fun. And are like, you know, that, that, you know, want to freaking put 120% in and a really good strategist, really help us find those white spaces and those insights that just result in the, you know, when you find that insight and you’re like, “that’s it”. And then it just leads to the most amazing campaign. Like that’s like– we’ve gotten away from that too much. And I think that’s why we are– agencies– are sometimes seen as vendors and account managers, project managers. So there’s lots of new shiny titles out there, but I do think we can’t forget the fundamentals of what we’re doing.

Mollie Rosen (12:22)

Yeah, I love that. All right, so my last question is, you know, is there one piece of advice that you would give to the next generation of agency leaders that would best prepare them for the future of where industry is going?

Frances Webster (12:35)

Learn the business, right? Get a mentor, all that stuff, and then start your own thing sooner rather than later. Like go for it. I mean, I started as an account person. I moved into new business at Beller, Shine and Stern, came back to New York. Deacon and I started Walrus in 2005. I was 32 years old with an eight month old, right? Like, changed. It’s crazy. Do not do that. But it changed the course of my career in such a real way. And it’s been one of the more gratifying things. Because yes, like, this is an insane industry. It’s also in the most fun part of business. And like when things go well, like when we won the Grubhub pitch this year and Breeze Airways, we’re like, we frigging did that. And then you see the work out in the world and that’s, that is one of the more gratifying things, right? So go for it. That’s my answer.

Mollie Rosen (13:23)

Awesome.

Outro (13:27)

Thank you for tuning in to this episode of the Look Ahead podcast, 4As4sight. Be sure to explore more conversations with industry leaders about what’s next for agencies and dive into the Look Ahead on our website at 4As.org.